DAY ONE: AFTERNOON (IV) – Barry

Barry: Magnes. [MAGNES JACK: Hello.] Magnes, I get the whole having fun thing. But I’m still not sure that I will be able to sustain it for long.

MAGNES JACK: I don’t follow you. Why do you want to sustain having fun?

Barry: Isn’t that the point?

MAGNES JACK: No. The point is to grow and enjoy life. How can we grow if we remain fixed in the way we see ourselves? Well, we can’t. But yet to change, we need to shift how we see ourselves and thereby see new possibilities. But that is difficult. Change is difficult. It’s an effort. Now, just because something is an effort, doesn’t mean it can’t be fun! But that’s how we tend to think. So, all I’m saying here is that we inject some fun into the proceedings, so we can be more fluid, see more new possibilities, act on them, experience new things, learn and grow – and enjoy life!!!

But if we are trying to sustain anything, fun or depressing, it all gets a bit heavy and serious. And we want to bring in more light and fun. This is not to say that life is not desperately sad at times, because it is. We are not removing any ingredient from life. It is all they to be enjoyed. It is merely our approach to life, and ourselves, that we are exploring here.

Does that help in any way Barry?

Barry: I think I was getting a bit hooked onto the fun thing. [Laughing]

MAGNES JACK: Well, Barry, there are worse things to be hooked on!

DAY ONE: AFTERNOON (III) – Helen

MAGNES JACK: Something I’d like to mention here is about the whole attitude, which comes from feeling the fun and doing it your way.

You see, whenever we are stuck in a pattern, it tends to be a little serious. Fun comes from fluidity.

But how do we see that we are stuck? Well, I think it’s a fair assumption that most of the time, we do respond in a patterned way, and I’m not saying that’s bad, I’m saying that with respect to learning and achieving the kinds of dreams you have, then you can have more fun if you have a flexible approach.

What tends to happen is that we resist such flexibility and really don’t want to give up our usual way of doing things.

We are stubborn as hell.

The quickest way that I’ve found to shift this mood into something more useful is simply to find it funny.

It can be hilarious, to me, that I should react the same way every time to a particular stimulus, whether that be a comment from a friend, or a situation that has come about, or a certain kind of challenge. This is funny!

In fact, unless we laugh, we may well start to cry, because of the sadness of it. So given a choice, we laugh. Now, I will admit, that sometimes I cry first and then laugh. [Laughs] But, that’s me.

It’s important to realise that we are laughing at the fact that we are basing our actions on only one version of events which we are acting as if were true. And this is never the case. They are always, many ways to see and feel around a situation. And dong so, will provide you with many more possibilities than the same-old, same-old.

So when you find yourself stuck, just allow a little smile to make it’s way across your face. And let that smile turn into amusement.

Now this will change you life. [Laughs]

Helen: Hi Magnes, that sounds too simple. [Laughs]

MAGNES JACK: I know. [Laughing]

Mind you, it is so simple that I will be surprised to find anyone doing it.

Our knee-jerk response to what appears to be simple is to write it off. “That’s just too simple, it’ll never work.” And often we won’t even try it!

But, we can, if we wish, use this precise approach on itself. By looking at our knee-jerk rejection of this, we can look at that itself, and find it funny that we should write something off so quickly, without even giving it a go. It is hilarious, in fact, that we are so willing to reject the very thing that would help us, just because we don’t “see it” initially.

And yet, as has been pointed out, initially we only “see” what we want to “see”, so we really cannot take this as being the only “take” on things. Otherwise, we lock ourselves back inside the prison of our little bubble.

Helen: I see. I was certainly in danger of writing it off. But I shall endeavour to give it a go today, and see what I can learn from the experience.

MAGNES JACK: Helen, that’s wonderful. That is all I ever ask. That we try these things out and see if they work for us. If they don’t then fine.

It remains a truism that some of the most powerful things, in terms of personal change, are so simple that we just push them to one side.

I mean if you think of all the self-help books you have read, and a lot of them are fine, they have got good stuff in there, but how much have you actually applied?

Why is that? Is it because we don’t want to change? But we bought the book didn’t we? I mean, surely, we wanted to change. Ah, but the idea of change and the reality of change are two different beasts. One is lovely, the other is terrifying. [Laughs]

So, we put the book away, and rationalise it’s suggestions as “Not quite what we were looking for.” You see, most of us are looking for a kind of change that doesn’t exist; a kind of change that requires little or no effort on our part.

Change is difficult. There is no getting around it. BUT…this is no reason why it can’t be fun! That is my central message, and if you leave with nothing else, leave with that.

It is our desire to have easy change or short-cut change that keeps us on the roundabout of self-help. Unlike the X-files, the truth is not “out there”, it is “in here”.

So to begin, we need to accept this basic fact: change is difficult.

I know that many books and trainers try to convince us otherwise, but the evidence is clear for all to see.

But, just because it’s difficult, doesn’t mean…

[audience members] …it can’t be fun!

MAGNES JACK: Precisely! Thank you. [Laughing]

There are many things in life, which are difficult and fun. In fact, the more difficult they are, the more fun they can be. But our desire for easy change means we give up far too easily.

As a result, novels aren’t written, courses aren’t created, songs are not sung, relationships never occur, businesses stay as ideas…and on and on.

This is not to say that every idea will be successful, but it will be successful in that you will learn from it.

————————————–

“OK, everyone. It’s time for an afternoon break. If you could be back in twenty minutes. Thank you.”

DAY ONE: AFTERNOON (III) – Bill

“WELCOME BACK! HOPE YOU HAD AN ENJOYABLE LUNCH. This session will take us up to 5pm with a break for tea and coffee in between. Ok. Let’s welcome back, MAGNES JACK.”

MAGNES JACK: Thank you! Good to see you all looking so sated and sleepy. [Laughing] Where shall we go next?

Bill: Hi Magnes. Magnes, I’ve really enjoyed today, but I want to say that I still have this niggling feeling that having fun is somewhat frivolous. And this goes back to the “heavy-duty” comment earlier. Could you talk around your own definition of what it means to have fun changing?

MAGNES JACK: Thank you for the question Bill. And it’s an excellent one. Many people say that having fun is childish. Yet, I would say that having fun is to bring back the child-like wonder at the world, the mystery of it, the mystery of you. You with me?

Mystery seems to have had a bad press. Mystery is a pre-requisite for having fun. Where there is no mystery, where is the fun?

It is curious to me that as we apparently grow up and become adults we lose this sense of mystery and everything needs to make sense. Think about the word “adulterated”, which means to make impure by adding extraneous, improper, or inferior ingredients.

That is very much what happens as we move from child to adult. We take on so much stuff from other people, and this stuff forms our VR bubble and from then on all we see is the world mediated thorough this stuff.

As children, our bubbles were much more like clear windscreens, but then we kept covering it with wallpaper and posters with statements on it like, “Don’t walk on the grass”, Don’t ask awkward questions” and the like.

So, by placing fun, back at the heart of the matter, I am saying “have fun with what is in your VR Bubble. The world you see is not real, so have some fun! Grow, learn, make friends, have a picnic!”

To an extent, we have engineered ourselves against change, and therefore change has become a struggle, but what I’m saying is to look at how you see that word “struggle”.

We are back to the bubble again. Is it possible, do you think, that you might – with a spot of fluid framing – see this struggle as a fun thing to participate in? Could that happen?

And by fun, I don’t mean smiles plastered on face all the time, I mean that you are engaged, challenged, taking part, getting knocked down and getting back up again, enjoying the battle; seeing life as something to be savoured not devoured! [Laughs]

It’s all in the framing and the approach. And this itself is a matter of intent.

Let’s say you really want to change the way your relationship is going, what you do depends on what? On how you see it and your approach. If you see that anything you say will be taken a certain way, then it probably will. Then, you might see that your response to anything you don’t like is to be irritated, but what if you chose to have some fun and enjoy a different response?

What if, when your wife lambastes you, you laugh and say, “You’ve got a point there! Let’s look at it.” And she might be knocked off her seat that you’ve not done the same-old reaction she normally gets, and suddenly you’re not in Kansas anymore with that conversation.

Can you see how this is a lot more involving than some trivial or frivolous, perhaps shallow, approach?

Fun is deep. It is seriousness that is shallow. Seriousness thinks it already knows and so why question. It already knows your response and it’s own reaction. It’s all about protection and defence. Very little new learning goes on.

Fun, on the other hand, is about challenging what appears to be real. It is about seeing new possibilities and daring to try them out. It is about engaging with people when you don’t quite know what will happen. To an extent, it is a tightrope walk. Which is fun, and dangerous.

Having fun is dangerous, amongst many other things.

Bill, has that answered you in any way?

Bill: Yes, indeed. I can see that you are passionate about fun, but that fun is much more – in the way you are using it – than the word commonly means.

MAGNES JACK: Yes, indeed. We are looking at fun in its depth, and also it’s scope. Vertical and horizontal. Thank you Bill.

DAY ONE: MORNING (I) – Jonathan

Jonathan: Magnes, can I ask you about the title of this seminar, which is not unlike a certain popular book, “Feel the fear and do it anyway”. Presumably, you chose it as some sort of comment on that.

MAGNES JACK: Hello Jonathan. Good question. I do remember reading that book years ago, and if I am truthful I never really got through it. I have heard from several people that it made a tremendous difference in their lives so it was clearly an excellent book for some.

When I was planning to do this seminar and put the focus on having fun changing, I was wondering what to call it. I decided on this for no other reason than it popped into my head and felt right. It provided an interesting counterpoint to fear.

If I understand the message of the book, it is to not let fear stop you acting, but to allow it, to experience the fear, and to continue to act anyway. This is great advice. No question. Because the more you act whilst experiencing fear, the more you understand what fear is about, and the less it can prevent you from taking action.

So I have no problem with the message, but I wanted to bring forward a different approach, which is to say, there are more ways to look at change other than “overcoming fear”.

Fear will always be there, but our approach to it can be enjoyable. You may not think that joy and fear go together, but they can quite nicely.

It all comes down to focus. Typically, someone wants to do X. And they are afraid to going down the X path. They may be afraid of many different things: of failing, of succeeding, of looking stupid, of being exposed as a fraud. Some will turn back immediately at the mere thought of it, and some more hardy creatures, take steps along the path. But it’s hard. Boy, is it hard.

There are two main reasons it is so hard:

1. The way it is framed.
2. The approach.

It is commonly framed as “over-coming fear”. Doesn’t exactly make you want to run towards it does it. And the approach is one of “determined struggle”.

Now again, I have nothing against over-coming fear or determined struggles, but there are other possibilities, and they begin by shifting the focus, and shifting the focus begins by asking a different question.

A question such as:

How might I go about really enjoying this challenge?

And you might say, “Enjoy? I’m crapping myself!” And I might say, “That’s fine! You can crap yourself and enjoy it too! What would make it fun for you?”

Eventually, you would find a way.

You have to remember that conditional fear, as opposed to animal fear or fear of the unknown, is based on an illusion, and this illusion resides in your version of things, which we already know is not real, but yet seems like it is.

So when we frame a change as “overcoming fear” we are really accepting that our version is actually true, which is false.

I hope you’re all following this! [Laughing] An exam will follow later.

This frame then, only embeds the notion that the illusion we are under is true. This is not to say that it doesn’t exist. It does. But not where we think it exists, out there in the real world. It exists only in our version, our own little VR (Virtual Reality) Bubble.

When we take a fun approach to this, we are acknowledging that our battle is not with something out there in the world, but something in here, in our VR Bubble.

And the fact that this made up thing is having such a real world effect on us is funny, when you think about it.

I mean we watch films, and we may get scared, but we leave the cinema and all is well. It was just a film. It was just a version. An illusion.

But when it comes to ourselves, we are convinced that our film is true. My God, Lassie can talk! For real. It’s funny to even consider that we would believe that to be true and act on it. Yet we act on the illusions on our own VR bubble every single day.

You see, once we frame it a new way, say – to prepare to enjoy the experience – whatever happens! – then this informs our actions and experience.

Jonathan, does that get anywhere near a satisfactory response for you?

Jonathan: Yes, it does. I was under the illusion [smiling] that you had chosen it as a put down on the fear book, but my new illusion is that you are more advocating a different approach to handling fear – a more fun way.

MAGNES JACK: I couldn’t have put it better myself. Fear is not going away. You just get to handle it better. And I have found that more people will do that if they are given the prospect of having fun in the process. This is the ultimate payoff. If we can make change fun, then more people will. Fear is scary, it puts people off. And other than saying that they should take “baby steps” (which makes me cringe whenever I hear it), we haven’t really done people a great service as yet – in my opinion.

Jonathan: Thank you.

MAGNES JACK: You’re welcome.

DAY ONE: MORNING (I) – Martin

Martin: Hi Magnes.  Great to see you in the flesh at last.

MAGNES JACK: Nice to meet you too Martin.  What’s up?

Martin: Magnes, you just talked about having fun with change, and that sounds great, but it just seems to me that fun is great but not heavy-duty enough.  Do you know what I mean?

MAGNES JACK: Well, I certainly hear you Martin, loud and clear.  I don’t agree with you, but you are telling me what is real for you and this is such an important issue.  Many people go on about having this or that view of the world, but sometimes I wish that we all really did wear virtual reality helmets.  Because at least then, we would have no doubt that each of us is truly living in our own unique cohesive virtual reality, which to all intents and purposes, we call “real” and because it’s our only version, it’s difficult to challenge ourselves on that.  I mean, sure, you can go meditate and experience a new reality, but then your VR helmet says, “Ah, but that just meditating stuff.  An exception.  This is real!”  And we are back to Square One.

SQUARE ONE
This is the name Magnes gives to our basic reality version which we believe to be real.  Being apparently real, it can be difficult to change.  We tend to spring back to Square One at the first opportunity.  New behaviours, which are not endorsed by Square One are forever at war with it, until eventually, the justification for new behaviours becomes integrated into Square One, thereby creating a modified version Square One v1.1.

MAGNES JACK: So, Martin, tell me a little more about this “heavy duty fun”.

Martin: Well, that’s my point; fun isn’t heavy duty enough for real change to occur.

MAGNES JACK: Then you are quite right, and you will simply have to endure painful change for the rest of you life.  Presumably, you are happy with that state of affairs.

Martin: [Laughing] No, I’m not!  There’s nothing I would like more than to believe that I could have fun changing.

MAGNES JACK: So now we get to the money!  The “what stops you” question.   The thing is Martin, if you knew what stopped you, and you could do something with that, you would have already wouldn’t you?

Martin: Actually, thinking about it, probably not.   Believing that change can’t be fun to do has meant that I haven’t really attempted to see if it really was possible, or whether I could change what is stopping me.

MAGNES JACK: Martin, thank you for sharing that.  You stated it most beautifully, and I’m sure you’ve helped many people see the impossible situations we construct for ourselves.   You see, all we really have to do, to begin with, is to entertain the possibility that how we see things is just one version, and thereafter, every new change, is like getting a software upgrade, enabling us to see new things out there, to literally see new possibilities, and in so doing, to enjoy new experiences, and so to grow and evolve.

I call this process VERSIONING from my days in computer science.

VERSIONING
In software, every version is given a new number.  In simple terms, the initial version is known as v1.0, and modifications to that become v1.1, 1.2 and so on.  When a more comprehensive change occurs, that would be v2.0.  Within personal change, Magnes encourages us to realise that our “reality” is but the current Version, and as such; we cannot see a great deal of what is available.  Thereby, we look for new experiences in order to feed our version with new knowledge meaning a shift to a new version.  Clearly, this is a metaphor, and should be used as such.

MAGNES JACK: Martin, let’s put it this way.  At the moment, you believe that change requires something “heavy duty”.  Correct?  [Martin nods]  And yet, you would also like to believe that you can have fun changing.  Correct?  [Martin nods].

Ok.  Would you say Martin, that some people do have fun changing?  [Martin nods]  Well, sure.  I do for one!  So given that some do, they must have (in their version) a belief that it is possible.  True?  [Martin nods].

Great!  So, we know that it is possible to have this belief, which you are saying is necessary to have before you can have fun changing.

Martin, do you believe it is possible to go ahead and see if you can have fun changing without having some heavy-duty belief in place first?

Martin:  Hmmm.  I see where you’re coming from.  Essentially, I had blocked myself off here.  But also, I have made it a pre-requisite that in order to have fun changing, I need to have this specific belief, and you are saying can I just go ahead anyway?

MAGNES JACK: Sure.  Just go ahead and have a play.  Then, when you find you can, you will have the grounds for a belief.  Believing is seeing.  No?  I mean, if you find that having fun is just too much of a struggle then you can always go back to what you did before, can’t you?

Martin:  Magnes, I hope you don’t mind, but could I slow this down a touch.  [MAGNES JACK: Sure.]

Ok.  I think I’m missing a piece.  I’d always thought that in order to do something required me to believe that it was possible.

MAGNES JACK: Is that really the case?  Or did you manufacture your disbelief to justify your lack of experience in having fun changing?

Martin: Wow!  You know what.  I think I did.  That’s scary!

MAGNES JACK: Not really.  We do it all the time to make us feel better about the limits of our knowledge and experience.  Rather than admit that we haven’t really figured out how to do something, perhaps because of fear or laziness, it’s far easier to construct a jolly good rational sounding belief that get’s me out of jail, than actually to get off my fat arse and go and see if I can have that experience.  I mean that would be work!  [Smiles]

Martin: It’s a curious thing Magnes, but right now, I just feel a huge amount of space, a kind of opening up.  When I think about needing a heavy-duty fun belief it seems nonsensical to me, like “Why?”  Just go and use your skills and have some fun!

MAGNES JACK: Precisely!

You see, there is something far more important than belief, far more influential than belief, and that is Intent.  You can set your intent on having fun changing without ever having any reason to believe that it is possible or not.  And one of the curiosities of intent, is that it can feel sometimes like a Surrogate Belief, which is a belief that something is possible for no other supporting reason than to make finding out easier.  It’s a belief than facilitates exploring but is not, as yet, rooted in any particular experience.

You see, there is something far more important than belief, far more influential than belief, and that is Intent.  You can set your intent on having fun changing without ever having any reason to believe that it is possible or not.  And one of the curiosities of intent, is that it can feel sometimes like a Surrogate Belief, which is a belief your hold that something is possible for no other supporting reason than to make it easier to find out.  It’s a belief that facilitates exploring but is not, as yet, rooted in any particular experience.

I call it a Surrogate Belief because it’s rather like a surrogate mother that is having/holding a baby for another.  In our case, we are holding the belief for ourselves…it may not feel like it’s in our arms quite yet, but it allows us to act as if it soon will be, and with the experience you gain, it more than likely will.

Martin: Ah, so you hold this belief, say “I can have fun changing” and even though you have no supporting evidence per se, and you know that, you choose to hold it anyway, for the purpose of seeing where it may lead.

MAGNES JACK: You got it!  Otherwise, we are left only acting on beliefs already formed, that is, based on past experience, and how can we learn new things if everything we do if mediated through our past.

Ok. Thank you Martin.  Is that all for now?

Martin: Yes, thank you very much.

MAGNES JACK: Pleasure.